|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 100 post(s) |
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
507
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 20:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: 2) I've already explained this. In most cases thus far people knew. I already told you to vet the people you lend isk to. The last time I checked making loans wasn't something we insure. If you lose your loan you can't tell a GM to give it back. Your other risk is that they're crooked. I don't see why this is an issue to be frank with you.
because you as the one who gives the loan are looking like an isk seller on ethe other party comes under scrutiny which means you do not only stand to lose your money but also your eve account |
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
507
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 21:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Florestan Bronstein wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: 2) I've already explained this. In most cases thus far people knew. I already told you to vet the people you lend isk to. The last time I checked making loans wasn't something we insure. If you lose your loan you can't tell a GM to give it back. Your other risk is that they're crooked. I don't see why this is an issue to be frank with you.
because you as the one who gives the loan are looking like an isk seller on ethe other party comes under scrutiny which means you do not only stand to lose your money but also your eve account When this happens we'll talk. I recognize that you do now want to discuss mere hypotheticals - but I'll ignore it.
When you investigate RMT you can only see one side of the transfers - what assets changed hands in EVE. The other side of the transaction - real world assets changing hands - which defines RMT is something you usually have no direct knowledge of.
So you are not handing out bans based on any sort of "proof" but have to resort to very fuzzy "evidence" - does the EVE side of the transaction look as if real life assets might have changed hands alongside or not... You have to infer this real-life side of the transaction by arguing along the lines of "well, those two players do not seem to have any previous interactions that make the in-game transaction look plausible/justified" - but given the prevalence of 3rd party communication methods like forums, jabber/IRC, voicecomms, ... an in-game paper trail justifying the transaction often does not exist even for legit enterprises.
There is literally no way to proof innocence in that case - how am I to demonstrate that I did not receive money for the ISK I sent to some random guy? fax you my bank statements? screenshot some jabber conversation that I might just as well have faked after the fact?
The knowledge that an investment of years might hinge upon a situation in which you cannot demonstrate your innocence makes people nervous.
Maybe the problem is that we automatically assume that you try to catch all sorts of RMT behavior - and that we know or at least assume that there is a lot of small scale/casual RMT going on which cannot be reliably identified from your POV.
(case in point: a few years ago I petitioned a guy who auctioned off one of his characters for RL money within the alliance; the character transfer was to take place via the CCP sanctioned means, the real life money was to change hands beforehand; afaik nothing happened as result of my petition - and how could the investigating GM ever have known for sure that RL money changed hands alongside the in-game transfer?).
I guess that as long as you only stick to big/commercial RMT operations with many customers and a relatively tight net of suppliers most cases should be relatively clear cut. |
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
508
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 22:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jita Alt666 wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: To be fair you can't do anything with ETCs in game. All of the trading happens outside of the game on the website.
Which is completely outside of Sreegs scope. not really
the problem is that ever since CCP started sending newbies "PLEX are a great way to get ISK, buy some now!" emails, RMT sites have put the direct sale of ISK on the backburner and are instead emphasizing the sale of PLEX in their advertisements - because now everybody knows that buying PLEX to get some ISK is legit....
Back in the day the division was easy - GTCs are legit and everything else is bad RMT. There was no way a RMT site could have gotten their fingers on working GTCs without CCP seeing their cut.
Now CCP sells PLEX which is good. And RMT sites sell PLEX which is bad.
Every time CCP advertises PLEX as legal RMT, "bad" RMT sites profit because they sell the very same product as CCP (which was not possible with GTCs) and the "... but only if you buy it from eveonline.com" gets swept under the rug.
Anyone wanting to combat RMT has to deal with this issue sooner or later - and while Sreegs cannot solve it on his own (guess bizdev are happy that they can sell 2 PLEX for more $$ than 1 GTC and won't let go off that easily) he should at least be very aware of the problem.
If he himself has lost track of legal vs illegal RMT, how is he supposed to prevent Joe Rookie from stumbling into the same trap? Oh but he isn't supposed to prevent that? his job only involves technical detection means and infrequent appeals to the playerbase to please change their behavior? he doesn't care about anything outside that narrow field of vision?
well, you only solve a problem on the scale of RMT in EVE by taking a coordinated & holistic approach across departments. Not by saying "oh but this is the job of game design", "and this is due to business development", "and that's the work of GMs", ... If that is the case then get game design, Business Development and GMs on one table and solve the problem together.
CCP Sreegs will always end up as the spokesperson and player contact for any sort of bad behavior, no matter whether he thinks it falls into his responsibility or not.
edit: directionless post lacks direction, I'm too tired to write concisely but I hope the gist of it is clear |
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
510
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 21:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rivur'Tam wrote:Thing is that you can buy a billion isk for $35 from ccp. I heard in a eve song that a billion isk from www.buyisk.com was $56.98 So why anybody would rmt isk when ccp sells it for a lot less is beyond me, your price information is either plain incorrect or horribly outdated (I heard that 1bn ISK sells for 250$ - back in 2007).
as long as you don't consider the risk of getting caught, RMT ISK is of course substantially cheaper than what you would pay to get the same amount through GTCs.
keeping track of RMT prices over time (and then comparing the data to PLEX prices and banwaves) might be an interesting little project. |
|
|
|